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It Took Ferrari & 10 Years Of Engine Technology To Better The F20C

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  • #31
    Originally posted by mike View Post
    Love your stuff, but let's not get carried away with the samurai / Honda hyperbole. Carburizing is simply increasing the carbon potential of the heat treating atmosphere to add carbon to the surface of the steel. It's not taking carbon from the interior of the part. I doubt there is a motor vehicle made in the last half century or more without a carburized part somewhere, be it a gear or bearing race, etc. As for samurai tech, those that were a little more high tech than the samurais in olden times would take their red-hot swords and plunge them into their captives or slaves to do a bit of primitive nitriding.
    You are correct and I was mistaken, it does not draw the carbon atoms from the inside but rather from the gas heat treating atmosphere. The secret of the samurai sword is a high carbon exterior steel surrounding a core of low carbon steel and then selective heat treating of the blade. The Samurai Sword was/is the pinnacle of bladed weaponry.
    .
    Bieg
    9000 RPM

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bieg View Post
      You are correct and I was mistaken, it does not draw the carbon atoms from the inside but rather from the gas heat treating atmosphere. The secret of the samurai sword is a high carbon exterior steel surrounding a core of low carbon steel and then selective heat treating of the blade. The Samurai Sword was/is the pinnacle of bladed weaponry.
      .
      It's not a secret. There are minimum wage people doing this process and even more advanced processes every day making even better products on a more consistent basis. While the samurai sword may have been cool 500 years ago it has very little to do with the S2000 that I love and drive today except that it was built to be an exceptional piece of equipment to exacting standards. Quite frankly, although Japanese swords have become mythical in nature, I'd rather have a real damascus steel sword. Now that process is still, if not secret, hard to replicate.

      Nonetheless, Steve, I do love your stuff. I appreciate all that you do. I apologize for being contrary.

      Mike

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      • #33
        Originally posted by RacingEmotions View Post
        i dont care what any of you say. S2k FTW :LOL:
        Ditto...I think

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mike View Post
          It's not a secret. There are minimum wage people doing this process and even more advanced processes every day making even better products on a more consistent basis. While the samurai sword may have been cool 500 years ago it has very little to do with the S2000 that I love and drive today except that it was built to be an exceptional piece of equipment to exacting standards. Quite frankly, although Japanese swords have become mythical in nature, I'd rather have a real damascus steel sword. Now that process is still, if not secret, hard to replicate.


          Nonetheless, Steve, I do love your stuff. I appreciate all that you do. I apologize for being contrary.

          Mike
          I beg to differ. The Samurai blade is a form of Damascus steel. The techniques were developed about the same time. Check out this link. http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2003/06/30.htm
          Bieg
          9000 RPM

          Comment


          • #35
            A master samurai swordsmith will take a year to produce a true samurai sword using both high and low carbon steel ingots produced in clay furnaces like they did 500 years ago. Just the polishing which is done by a master polisher by hand takes months. All these steps are done by masters of the art in the same way as the many generations of masters before them. A sword made in this manner can cost a collector $100,000 or more. It truly is an amazing process and the only reason I know this is that I recently saw a documentary that followed the making of one sword in this manner.

            You can be sure that these are true samurai swords and not made by minimum wage workers.
            Bieg
            9000 RPM

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bieg View Post
              I beg to differ. The Samurai blade is a form of Damascus steel. The techniques were developed about the same time. Check out this link. http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2003/06/30.htm
              Sweet!

              I bow to your blade making knowledge. And also your S2000 knowledge. I still doubt that is the modern day technology employed in making any part of the S2000. I'm sure damascus steel rods would be a "no-no" just from a reliability standpoint.

              Jeez, you are relentless. Want to go have a beer?

              Mike

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              • #37
                Originally posted by mike View Post
                Sweet!

                I bow to your blade making knowledge. And also your S2000 knowledge. I still doubt that is the modern day technology employed in making any part of the S2000. I'm sure damascus steel rods would be a "no-no" just from a reliability standpoint.

                Jeez, you are relentless. Want to go have a beer?

                Mike
                ps: I blame the Kill Bill movies for this nonesense...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by mike View Post
                  Sweet!

                  I bow to your blade making knowledge. And also your S2000 knowledge. I still doubt that is the modern day technology employed in making any part of the S2000. I'm sure damascus steel rods would be a "no-no" just from a reliability standpoint.

                  Jeez, you are relentless. Want to go have a beer?

                  Mike

                  If I am ever in Texas I will look you up. My only point was that the rods were carburized thus being harder on the surface than in it's core like a Samurai sword. I admit it was a flawed comparison.
                  Bieg
                  9000 RPM

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bieg View Post
                    If I am ever in Texas I will look you up. My only point was that the rods were carburized thus being harder on the surface than in it's core like a Samurai sword. I admit it was a flawed comparison.
                    You're on. My only issue was the descripiton of carburizing. Love to meet you. I don't have the depth of knowledge that you evidently have. I'll be in upstate New York next month, but, I'm afraid it's a long way away from your home to buy you a drink.

                    Mike

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Back to cars

                      I just read about the soon to be for sale Lexus LFA. 10 years in the making, starting with a clean sheet of paper. It's designed to compete with the exotic, expensive sports cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini. The HP/L is 116, a little less the the AP1. The price is around $375k before options. Nice to see there's still only one car that beats the S2000 on HP/L, again at a very high price. The redline on the LFA is 9000 but I believe the limiter is at 9300, so that may drop the S2000 down a notch. Still we are talking about cars that are nowhere near the attainability of the S2000. By the way, Lexus plans to build 500 LFAs and sell only around 177 in the US. Makes the S2000 seem like high production! I suspect the LFA will be super reliable which one would expect for the money.

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                      • #41
                        I'm not entirely convinced that super reliable always comes with the money.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by takeshi View Post
                          I'm not entirely convinced that super reliable always comes with the money.
                          I'm convinced that there's an inverse relationship. More money demands more complexity (nav, power everything, cameras, lane detection systems, etc.), which means more potential stuff to break.
                          Chris



                          '13 Civic Si sedan
                          '08 Ridgeline RTL
                          '02 Z06

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                          • #43
                            Agreed

                            There is definitely not an absolute relationship between cost and reliability. However, Lexus has a pretty impressive record for reliability and I'm sure this is a car for which there was little to no shortcutting and extensive research. My Lexus RX 330 recently passed 100K and it almost functions perfectly. There are a number of counter example brands, i.e. high cost and frequent repairs, but I won't get into that. I would bet a large sum of money that the LFA is highly reliable. If I had $375K to spare I would definitely make the ultimate bet on the car.

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                            • #44
                              Not trying to be picky, but it took Ferrari 20 years to catch up, not 10. Frankly, astounding.

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