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  • Let's be serious about roll bars

    For those of us in any stage of track addiction, we know the event organizers are right. It's not good if your melon capsule sits higher than the plane between the windshield and the OEM hoop.

    Who is serious about the installation?
    Is there really such a thing as a "group buy"? (really?)
    How far down the pipe is the "portable", dis-assembly type design?

    Let's roll, my brothers . . .
    hasta

  • #2
    I am all in. I think a roll bar would be a great safety addition to the car. Now I just have to learn how to keep it shiny side up and from going in circles.

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    • #3
      I looked into roll bars before buying an S and was dissappointed in what's available. It's just not as easy to get one in our cars as it is a MX5, and there are fewer Ss out there to sell to. I decided the pros of the car outweighed my concerns, and the oem protection is better than most anyway. I was lucky enough to walk away from a rollover in a Civic on the north loop back in the early 80s-definately the scariest crash I've ever been in. Still have pics of that car sitting in the junk yard the next day somewhere...it belonged to one of my best friends. RIP lil Civic.
      So...I'll be taking a close look at what's offered. Two things I'd like to see considered:

      Universal fitment - I want to keep that nice structural brace Honda put in the CR instead of the soft top. I accept that the tonneau cover will either be cut or removed completely. I'm thinking some sound material & carpet will help with the extra noise. Hell the wife might even be able to put a purse back there since there's no spare . I sent Slambo pics of the brace, and made a standing offer if a CR is needed for measurments or mock up. Got my fingers crossed that there won't be any interference with that oem brace.

      Streetability - I know Its a tall order just to get a bar in these cars that will pass tech, much less get it out of (naked) head flailing range, but the track isn't the only place the car can roll over. Not having to take it in and out for track days would be a bonus for me also.
      Just my two cents. I'd buy a bar with the above specs whether it was required for the track or not. Regs, insurance and the exclusion of larger drivers/convertables from the track is a whole other can of worms

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      • #4
        The Preliminary Design is about 50% complete, I still need to work out some features in the footing. Its then upto the partys that be to make a prototype of this. I dont know if you saw the Model I had shown to the rest of the guys on Sunday but there was some good feedback to the Model I had already layed out.



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        • #5
          Originally posted by phm14 View Post
          Universal fitment - I want to keep that nice structural brace Honda put in the CR instead of the soft top. I accept that the tonneau cover will either be cut or removed completely. I'm thinking some sound material & carpet will help with the extra noise. Hell the wife might even be able to put a purse back there since there's no spare . I sent Slambo pics of the brace, and made a standing offer if a CR is needed for measurments or mock up. Got my fingers crossed that there won't be any interference with that oem brace.

          Streetability - I know Its a tall order just to get a bar in these cars that will pass tech, much less get it out of (naked) head flailing range, but the track isn't the only place the car can roll over. Not having to take it in and out for track days would be a bonus for me also.
          Just my two cents. I'd buy a bar with the above specs whether it was required for the track or not. Regs, insurance and the exclusion of larger drivers/convertables from the track is a whole other can of worms
          Universal fitment. Honda added the structural brace when they removed the softtop. There was a huge hole left when they removed the softtop and the brace made things a bit stiffer.

          A proper roll bar would fill the same bill for added strenght. The car is also very limited on space and that bar is just in the way to the locations you would want to mount the roll bar. So conside that part something you will have to remove if and when you install a proper roll bar.

          Streetability - The problem here is your head. Because of where the bar would have to be, your head would hit it in a colision. At the track that is fine, you have a helmet on, But on the street you don't. The OEM Belts, Roll Hoop and seats were wll designed to alow you to move just enough to allow the car to roll and keep you alive. There have been several examples of this.

          There has also been a few with aftermarket roll bars in the car that have left a few dents in the heads of their street drivers.


          So here are my thoughts on a design.

          1. The main hoop will be removable, It will pull straight up and out of the car.
          2. The rear supports will be fixed and tucked into the OEM roll hoops.
          3. Both the cross brace and harness bar will be removable.

          This will allow for the most functional bar for the S to date.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stratocaster View Post
            Universal fitment. Honda added the structural brace when they removed the softtop. There was a huge hole left when they removed the softtop and the brace made things a bit stiffer.

            A proper roll bar would fill the same bill for added strenght. The car is also very limited on space and that bar is just in the way to the locations you would want to mount the roll bar. So conside that part something you will have to remove if and when you install a proper roll bar.

            Streetability - The problem here is your head. Because of where the bar would have to be, your head would hit it in a colision. At the track that is fine, you have a helmet on, But on the street you don't. The OEM Belts, Roll Hoop and seats were wll designed to alow you to move just enough to allow the car to roll and keep you alive. There have been several examples of this.

            There has also been a few with aftermarket roll bars in the car that have left a few dents in the heads of their street drivers.


            So here are my thoughts on a design.

            1. The main hoop will be removable, It will pull straight up and out of the car.
            2. The rear supports will be fixed and tucked into the OEM roll hoops.
            3. Both the cross brace and harness bar will be removable.

            This will allow for the most functional bar for the S to date.
            Well taken...I've read some good arguments that recommend either going all the way with a track set up (seats/harnesses/bar) or just sticking with oem. Seems to naturally extend to the solution of a dedicated track car. Unfortunately that's a leap many won't or can't take.
            I was afraid there might not be enough room to postion the bar where it wouldn't crack your head on the street, fit under the top and still pass the broomstick test. Then there's the problem of taller drivers where the bar won't be high enough to fit under the top and pass the broomstick
            Tough problem...sounds like your bar might be the best compromise. What would be the max driver height with a stock seat height, & with a dropped seat?

            edit-I suppose a taller driver might fit a taller main hoop for top down use only. He'd just have to be sure and close his visor in the rain or bail til it quit.
            Last edited by phm14; 12-23-2008, 01:58 PM.

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            • #7
              BTW-to all involved in the project-Thanks Your efforts are greatly appreciated-we all need to keep our heads.

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              • #8
                So here are my thoughts on a design.

                1. The main hoop will be removable, It will pull straight up and out of the car.
                2. The rear supports will be fixed and tucked into the OEM roll hoops.
                3. Both the cross brace and harness bar will be removable.

                This will allow for the most functional bar for the S to date.
                Great idea! I really didn't care to lose access to the only glovebox on the car
                hasta

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                • #9
                  I have the Hard Dog bar that requires you to remove the bulkhead and it's awesome.

                  It's a full bolt in bar but I decided to weld in the front portion for extra security and to avoid cutting the wheel well.

                  A couple pics... (those harnesses are gone before anyone tells me how unsafe 3pts are )





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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the great pics I'm sure they'll help with our deliberations.
                    hasta

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                    • #11
                      NP... also Tom is a good guy to deal with. He can easily customize the bar to your request.

                      He even rush shipped mine out to Ohio for me last min because some plans had changed on my end.

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                      • #12
                        FYI, just a little history on roll bars for the S2000. Elda engineering created the first S2000 SCCA bolt in roll bar. They did two runs of the bar and with the slow sales and other personal issue. They stopped production and got a day job. GoFastLabs picked up the ball and contacted HardDog to manufature the Elda bar from the original plans.

                        During the prototype phase, HardDog and GFL changed a minor detail on the rear support mounts. The original plans called for a 1" base plate, SCCA required a 3/8" plate. So the change was made. Turns out this was a big deal. That small change moved the rear support enough to get in the way of the OEM seat belt mounts. GFL had sold a few of these and shipped them to their customers. When their customer found out that the fitment was an issue. GFL had to take the bars back and eat the return shipping. That was enough to put GFL out of business.

                        Removal of the bul head opens up alot of options as far as bar design goes. But the more you want to car to remain "stock" looking for the street, that harder is is to design a proper bar.

                        As it sits right know, I think wehave a good solution for a removeable bar. As soon as we get a good looking diagram, we will post it. Again this bar will also be based on the original Elda plans.

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                        • #13
                          As you know I have a roll bar that I purchaced from TSTILES. My bar bolts into the holes for the factory roll hoops. It allows full function of the glovebox and sits far back so I can slide the seat all the way back.

                          It does not have a cross member so it may not be legal for racing events but I belive that it is good for my HPDEs and am very happy with it.

                          It provides more protection that factory hoops and is higher than factory equipment.

                          So for HPDE and daily driving I think it is a good design.

                          Curt installed it and except for the plastic on the factory hoops the interior is unchanged

                          I do not know where it came from before Trey.

                          It cost me about $500 plus installation.
                          2000 NFR - Tein in car adjustable coilovers, 2.2 liter bottom end, Hardtop, K-Pro Custom Roll Bar,
                          Custom Brake Vents, Custom Mod to Stock Seat, Backyard Special Low Mount Seat
                          Rail from Bulletproof Automotive Koyo Radiator, Oil Cooler

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                          • #14
                            I purchased the GFL bar from Ludedude from the other site. It's a knock off of the Elda bar that Jeff pointed out. I paid $400 or so with the removable diag / harness. Installation was easy for the most part. Just make sure the car is on a level surface before you torque the bolts. I could have kept my rear console, but with no access to the hidden compartment. I was more worried about safety and weight savings. So I removed the bulk head as well. I mount the camcorder on the roll bar using the I/O mount and it works great with no obstruction from the rear view mirror. The only downside is no wind block and you can really feel the drag with the top down on the track. I would do it over again in a heart beat. I am about to order a Hard Dog for the Miata I picked up for Sue yesterday

                            Happy Holidays

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by speedracer View Post
                              As you know I have a roll bar that I purchaced from TSTILES. My bar bolts into the holes for the factory roll hoops. It allows full function of the glovebox and sits far back so I can slide the seat all the way back.

                              It does not have a cross member so it may not be legal for racing events but I belive that it is good for my HPDEs and am very happy with it.

                              It provides more protection that factory hoops and is higher than factory equipment.

                              So for HPDE and daily driving I think it is a good design.
                              I'm not a mechanical engineer, but would extended hoops work? Or maybe some sort of protection that could be bolted onto the existing hoops to temporarily provide additional protection for a DE event?

                              02 Sebring Silver: Fujita F5 CAI, Modifry Dash Mounting Plate, XM Radio, Modifry Camera Mount, Keyhole Covers

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                              • #16
                                That is what I have.

                                I have no interest in testing my roll bar for effectiveness.
                                2000 NFR - Tein in car adjustable coilovers, 2.2 liter bottom end, Hardtop, K-Pro Custom Roll Bar,
                                Custom Brake Vents, Custom Mod to Stock Seat, Backyard Special Low Mount Seat
                                Rail from Bulletproof Automotive Koyo Radiator, Oil Cooler

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Geo02s2k View Post
                                  I'm not a mechanical engineer, but would extended hoops work? Or maybe some sort of protection that could be bolted onto the existing hoops to temporarily provide additional protection for a DE event?
                                  Have you looked at the roll hoops? You would have to cut the plastic off to bolt anything to it. At that point you might as well remove it anyway. It is going to look like heck once you cut it and remove the bars.

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                                  • #18
                                    Stratocaster, thanks for the Elda history. I purchased an Elda roll bar (thankfully) and often wondered whatever happened to Elda, etc.
                                    Dave
                                    now - '59 white MGA
                                    past - '01 S2000 (nine years), four other MGAs, Spitfire, Stag, 63 Vette

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Stratocaster View Post
                                      Have you looked at the roll hoops? You would have to cut the plastic off to bolt anything to it. At that point you might as well remove it anyway. It is going to look like heck once you cut it and remove the bars.
                                      I hadn't really checked them out. I was just assuming the plastic was removeable (like other pieces in the car). If it could be removed temporarily and replaced, that would be ideal for me.

                                      02 Sebring Silver: Fujita F5 CAI, Modifry Dash Mounting Plate, XM Radio, Modifry Camera Mount, Keyhole Covers

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Geo02s2k View Post
                                        I hadn't really checked them out. I was just assuming the plastic was removeable (like other pieces in the car). If it could be removed temporarily and replaced, that would be ideal for me.
                                        The plastic is welded together. Once you seperate it, it will never be the same. That is the key down side here..

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